nurses paid more than doctors

**Gona_bea_nurse** · 03-16-2010, 11:39 AM

Way to highlight the .00001 precent of nurses. Most don't come close to that.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/03/11/news...n=money_latest

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Despite the growing shortage of family doctors in the United States, medical centers last year offered higher salaries and incentives to specialist nurses than to primary care doctors, according to an annual survey of physicians' salaries.

Primary care doctors were offered an average base salary of $173,000 in 2009 compared to an average base salary of $189,000 offered to certified nurse anesthetists, or CRNAs, according to the latest numbers from Merritt Hawkins & Associates, a physician recruiting and consulting firm.

And the firm's projections for 2010 indicate that the average base salary for family physicians will be about $178,000 compared to $186,000 for CRNAs.

CRNAs are advanced practice nurses who administer anesthesia to patients. An important distinction between CRNAs and anesthesiologist is that when anesthesia is administered by a nurse anesthetist, it is still recognized as the practice of nursing rather than a practice of medicine

"It's the fourth year in a row that CRNAs were recruited at a higher pay than a family doctor," said Kurt Mosley, staffing expert with Merritt Hawkins & Associates.

CRNA salaries have trended higher as the number of surgical procedures picked up pace over the past few years, fueling demand for anesthesiologists and anesthetists.

0:00 /3:17Doctors opt out of Medicare
Mosley said medical doctors and specialists, including anesthesiologists, typically have four to five years more of medical training than CRNAs. After spending a lot of time speaking with physicians around the country, he said many family doctors are starting to feel like "second-class citizens."

This type of income disparity "won't make them feel better," he said. Most primary care doctors say they're already struggling to make ends meet as their costs rise faster than what Medicare and private insurers are paying them .

Looking at these compensation trends, the biggest concern for the nation's health care system is how to encourage more medical students to pick primary care as their specialty at a time when the nation is already facing a shortage of about 60,000 primary care doctors.

"The demand for primary care doctors will increase twofold when health reform happens and millions of more Americans have access to health care," said Mosley. "Who is going to triage these patients? It's not the neurologist or pulmonologist. It has to be the primary care doctor."

The American Association of Nurse Anesthetists (AANA) maintains that CRNAs are being fairly compensated.

"From our perspective, we are fairly compensated for the level of responsibility that we shoulder," said Lisa Thiemann, senior director of professional services with the AANA.

"We are at the head of the patient's bed. We deliver anesthesia and we keep the patient safe," said Thiemann, who has been a CRNA for 14 years.

"Once nurses and physicians arrive at anesthesia training, we use the same textbooks and same cases. The training is not too different between the two groups," she said. "We all deliver anesthesia the same way

**Edson!** · 03-16-2010, 04:19 PM

Personally I disagree with this. It makes no sense at all.

**dakotaj70** · 03-16-2010, 04:59 PM

I think the pay seems a little high for the new nurse anesthesist's if it is that high I think my buddy got shorted. He started at $147K with a physician group private practice. Must be an average of all states.
As for Dr's I was told by many that they are having a tough time making it with the overhead of the office and billing and continued cuts by medicare. They were jealous of the dentist's who do mostly private pay.

**Edson!** · 03-16-2010, 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by dakotaj70

I think the pay seems a little high for the new nurse anesthesist's if it is that high I think my buddy got shorted. He started at $147K with a physician group private practice. Must be an average of all states.
As for Dr's I was told by many that they are having a tough time making it with the overhead of the office and billing and continued cuts by medicare. They were jealous of the dentist's who do mostly private pay.

It's true. What's more, CRNAs do not have the same education or overall, intensively supervised training or hours in training that anesthesiologists have. Of course they make twice as much as CRNAs, but I still think the CRNA salary is ridiculous. This is especially true when they need more primary care physicians and some of them do not make $140-160,000 post residency--after being poor for 12 years or more--and having all that overhead you speak of! It's insanity.

**millrat7** · 03-22-2010, 09:41 AM

The AMA doesn't want NP's or PA's in primary care because they might be "dangerous." The reality is that they are cheaper and provide competition for the MD's. They work using protocols that are evidence-based, unlike doctors who don't want to practice "cookbook" medicine. And, they are board certified, just like docs. I know from personal experience that a good NP can be just as, if not more, effective than a primary care doc. There are studies being done that report those outcomes. And, NPs seem more willing to work in underserved areas. So, why not? And, uh, how does anyone figure a Primary Care is poor for 12 years? Their residency program is only 3 years, the last time I checked.

**rasfanta** · 07-25-2010, 08:08 PM

If a MDs residency is only three years and the NPs is two years, than the math does not add up. How can an NP be as qualified as an MD. Further, unless that NP has previous field experience, and I mean 10-15 years of field experience, she is still at a disadvantage and I don't believe poor people should see a NP instead of a MD just because they are poor. How fundamentally elitist. I don't blame the MDs for looking out for their profession and not allowing it to be usurped by anybody, unlike the nursing profession who can't even decide the level of entry to practice and do not look out for the profession. They will soon want you to have a doctorate degree to empty a bed pan. Nurses need to look out for nursing; build up nursing and if you want to be a doctor, go to medical school.