Peer review process

[peady2]

Since you obviously took the time to read and then quote my post, I guess I should have read your response.

However I figured it would be easier and faster to just say "I disagree."

[Edson!]

Wow. The hits keep coming. Thanks.
You disagree on something you haven't read, and apparently reading or typing quickly aren't skills you value.

But thanks for making another great demonstration of the mentality I've tried to show for a while.

Thanks for the silly "dig." Thanks for showing why you disagree. Again, another clear counterpoint of substance was not made on something; yet an attempt at a personal slap was easier. And hey, wow, really, there's just no need to understand the nuances of things. Too bad you disagreed but couldn't really clarify why in light of any given points.



Basically depending on the specifics of this situation, it's simple. IF you know and can demonstrate that you followed the SOP, you can point out the lack of damaging impact in a claim that could hurt you as a nurse by trying to get them to come clean. Managers can get a bit crazy sometimes and forget themselves in order to try to justify the unjustiable--even though with the standard AWE, they don't have to justify their behavior at all--fair, unfair, or otherwise. Sort of like how you feel about disagreeing (on a public discussion board no less), without backing up why.

So, although it may not mean you will win reasonable compensation for unfair employment practices in court, it can put them on notice that you mean business, and they then really need to rethink what the say (offically and unofficially) and put in your file.


Also, if the nurse's situation is questionable or if she knows she may have violated a SOP, getting in touch with BON, and having them help find structured ways to correct the situation may not hurt either and may actually help her--especially if she knows they have been contacted. She is showing a desire to correct things--to take action to change the behavior and make things better--improve safe practices, or whatever the situation is. BUT, THERE AGAIN, it "depends" on the kind of situation, which requires specific knowledge. Depending on what occurred, if there was a problem in safe performance, the employer can then note and expose it, at least in generality, and it is not libelous of them if it can be shown as true. So either way, it seems in the nurse's best interest to get a lawyer to represent her and at least limit the spread of negativity against her, for what comes out of situation may have long-term, damaging impact on her future. Entering into one of the board's programs or suggestions, say, a refresher course with clinical, will demonstrates another proactive way for her to mitigate her losses and improve her situation.

So, um enlighted one, the distinctions must be made on the specifics.


But when an employer is using you as a scapegoat or being truly unfair and capricious, putting them on notice of this by way of some reality calls is NOT necessarily a bad thing. Once more, and as I pointed out from the beginning, it d e p e n d s.

Seems you may not know of situations where nurses' practices were fine and they got royally screwed. Yes it does happen, and not as rarely as people may want to believe. I have helped an employment lawyer that could show otherwise w/ a good number of nurses, as well as with those from other fields, occupations, and professions.

Have a lovely day.

[peady2]

You just can't help yourself.

Does anyone remember how the teachers talk in the Charlie Brown animated TV shows? "Wonk, wonk wonk"....blah, blah, blah....

I still disagree.

[Edson!]

Neither can you. And again thanks for displaying your ineptitude at using rational discussion. . . yet again. How many times are you going to advertise this? Wow.

Good job. Wait. I like this one better. As someone else likes to say here, "strong work." *grin*

[Edson!]

Oh and funny too how when your fearful leader speaks and "dances," many of us hear the same thing. Yet we still try to find something, some morsel of substance from his words, "misspeaks," whatever.



So again you disagree without a why. It then matters in what way here in terms of discussion?

Clue:
It doesn't, but keep repeating it. It makes you look brilliant.

[peady2]

I already explained in my first post here exactly why I disagree with you. My POV has not changed. But unlike you I have no need to ram my opinion down anyone's throat with constant repetition.

[Edson!]

No, not in light of what was further shared. That is, in light of the caveat I set out before your "ominous" warning, and in light of the essential principle that if the nurse followed SOP and she can demonstrate it, she has nothing to fear in challenging their false accusation against her in such a way. It would be calling them into accountability on their charge. If she is being used as a scapegoat, their intimidation and false claims should be addressed in a calm, but forthright and honest manner.

If they are using and intimidating her, she could call them on it. I sure would if I knew I towed the line and they were trying to use me as a scapegoat. Even with a lawyer's help, they may only be able to do so much. You still have to be able to standup for yourself when necessary. Their lie should be challenged, unless there is some specific reason that it cannot be. If she's their scapegoat for the surgeon, they are very limited in their ethics and integrity. They should not stain her career b/c of their lack of ethics and decency.

Hmmm. Still nothing to add?
You want the last word then?

OK. Have at it.

[reesern1963]

My understanding of the BON is that they don't help nurses; their function is to protect the public. If you call the BON and ask for clarification about a standard of practice issue, good luck. They are of no help whatsoever; BTDT. They will advise you to use your best professional judgement, follow hospital policy, etc. They will not help you improve your practice; not unless things have significantly changed.

The OP's best bet (which she was advised on previously under a different name, I might add), is to get a lawyer. She may think she can't afford a lawyer, but she really can't afford to lose her license or get blacklisted.

[Edson!]

I am licensed in more than one state. The sites have programs for nurses, and it is my understanding that they can refer to help other than if it is drug/alcohol related. Many boards have been working on remediation programs for a while. Whether it shows on record in the state depends though. And again, this is the other reason I noted the caveat.

The idea is that in order to better help the public, it makes sense to put in place mechanisms that help the licensed practioner. In one state I think it is called PERC and follows the voluntary recovery program model established for nurses that were found to have drug or ETOH problems. There are things that will dismiss eligibility, such as fraud, reckless conduct, intentional abuse and drug diversion.

The person has to really know the specifics of their situation. If there is a board report, that would need to know about it anyway, and just b/c there is one, it does not mean there is anything of substance to it. Again a lawyer is a good idea, especially for this nurse if she is a scapegoat for surgeon error--and I have seen that at least twice, believe it or not, in my career as a nurse. This is part of why these kind of things burn my britches. If they are using her as a scapegoat, the hospital doesn't want other poking around in it. So the BON challenge can put them on notice. If there is something reported, it depends on what the claim is, and what is going on w/ it. If she isn't guilty, she should fight it. Even though she needs a job, she must keep looking and try to get something and maybe get a lawyer willing to work with her on fees. She should protect her standing as a nurse. If there is something that is off in terms of a breach in standards, perhaps PERC might be helpful. It all totally depends on the specifics of her situation. And this is where a nurse attorney w/ work in employment law as well would be helpful.

I agree from this standpoint. In the past when I needed to call about address information or sluggish reciprocity issues--the board can be so slow in moving things along--it's pretty much impossible to get someone on the phone. But as long as I have been a nurse, and this has been an issue in more than one state, they are notorious for being slow and for not having anyone to attend to the phones. I can't imagine being in a situation like this and needing to talk with them repeatedly. I think another state that I did not end up working in for too long (found better job elsewhere) took my license money, and never processed the license through, but I never saw my money come back to me.

[NurseEducator]

Hello Julie, Every state is a bit different in how the process works and the individual nurse's rights. For instance, here in Texas you have the right to call witnesses, to view the patient record in advance of the meeting, to have policies read into the meeting,etc. To be less specific statewise one thing I know for sure is that Peer Review and HR (Hiring and Firing) is totally seperate. HR is about your job. Peer Review is about your license. You do want to prepare and attend. Read your state's Nurse Practice Act for information on Peer Review and the Standard of Care rules and regulations. See a Nurse JD or attorney experienced with dealing with BON issues. You can call your ANA state chapter they usually have a list. Also, you may apply for unemployement and assistance with some of these issues. If it involves a specific error or practice area look for remediation, refresher, or CEs in these areas and do them and show certificates to demonstrate your willingness to improve your practice. Good luck and stay encouraged. Sometimes obstacles can turn into stepping stones.

[ronniew]

nice information
thanks