This is What I'm Talking About!

[Edson!]

Quote:
Originally Posted by copperrose
I know that there are redneck Democrats in AZ who hate illegal aliens just as much as any Republican could.

Do you even know what in the world you are saying????? Now Republicans--and yes according to you "any" Republicans--hate illegal aliens!???? WHAT? Talk about nonsense. Yes, all or most Republicans HATE illegal aliens. Why that MUST BE TRUE. I am astonished at your reply, and I am astonished (sadly maybe not) that it is allowed to stand.

More irrelevant and inaccurate nonsense! Republicans and Democrats do NOT hate illegal aliens. They are concerned about the dangers and problems that come with illegal invasions and illegal movement across the border--and the undue burdens they put on all Americans. (Just like you would be if you had trespassers coming into your property and consuming your resources without much expectation of contribution or stability or even safety. I don't want to hold anyone back; but there is a way things are to be done. I just can't apply to any college program and expect unconditional acceptance. I can't barge or sneak into the admissions office and think or demand the right to have a place in any particular program. Yes, there may be some that cross over illegally that are trying to survive literally. But that is not all or even most.)

But back to your insolent statement regarding Republicans and some "redneck" (your word) Democrats. . .
Listen, not one of us here as nurses that I can think of, Republican or otherwise, hates aliens nor would we turn them away if they were in suffering or bleeding and needed care. The absurdity (and wow, talk about offensive comments) in your statement is just too too much.

The absurdity in your other statements is inescapable also; but I think you really hit the top with your illegal aliens and Republican and "some "red neck Democrats" statement. Furthermore, you've illustrated the kind of hypocritical and illogical mentality many of us have been talking about. Thanks.

OK. A MB member can talk smack like this--and make such unfair and wicked sweeping generalizations, and somehow it is OK--even though it is not even remotely intelligent, much less true.

You've got to be kidding me.

No wait. In light of everything that's been going on here, I'm now wondering if you are just baiting us . . . right. . . .b/c apparently you can get away with this kind of stuff, yet others just can't speak out in a forthright manner if their positions are of another particular political persuasion.

This is nauseating.
__________________
"A Constitution of Government once changed from Freedom can never be restored. Liberty once lost is lost forever." John Adams



This is beyond incredible! Please someone, Michael, whoever, please tell why this kind of thing goes on endelessly, yet FrankR's thread was pulled down. If this site clearly caters to one side of things, please just be open and admit it, and admit that there will be one set of rules for one group (the politically favored) and another set for the others.

I beg your pardon, but honestly this is just too, too much. And this IS NOT the first time this kind of thing has happened.

And there goes another simlar baiting thread from one of the two notorious for this sort of thing. They know who they are--if INDEED they are truly a "they."

I am sorry. And I believe one of my posts was pulled down, and I was not even pm'd about it. Why? Why do you allow this kind of thing? I thought this site was open to diversity of ideas and positions for ALL nurses--not just those of a particular political flavor.

I've watched this happen more than once. How can there be any credibility here when the rules are not balanced and applied fairly to everyone?

I like many external things you have done with the site, but this kind of imbalance is something that should not be tolerated. Consistently apply the rules of discussion and posting to everyone fairly, period.

I think I am the only one that really doesn't care if you penalize me for posting this response. But honestly it had to be said.

[reesern1963]

It's impossible for there to be any rational discussion about health care reform. It usually ends up being you, Noodle, and copper going after each other like starving wolverines. It's all political, just dressed up under different titles. You all give as good as you get.

[Edson!]

It's impossible for there to be any rational discussion about health care reform. It usually ends up being you, Noodle, and copper going after each other like starving wolverines. It's all political, just dressed up under different titles. You all give as good as you get.

No it isn't impossible. That's a rationalization. People have to be able to have strong arguments both ways. If the basis for their perspective or counterpoints are flailing and weak, please don't cry saying "Oh someone picked on me dear moderator," simply b/c they cannot present a sound, logical, and strong response to the logical ones given.


Not one person--NOT ONE has been able to demonstrate how, for example, ANY form of "universal or socialized or public health insurance plan will cover 300 million plus people without an astounding raise in taxes across the board, and the inevitable break in this nation's numerous small business sector (which supplies an enormous about of jobs for folks btw), and the ultimate need to control costs by limiting care.

And that does not even mention this reasonable consideration: How, with such an unprecendented number of people in our USA, will governmental bureaucracy be kept to a true minimum (impossible by historical and current standard practice) and mismanagement and delays not be considerable (again demonstrated as impossible by historical and current government practice)??????

Now in what way are those questioning perspectives/concerns IRRATIONAL?



Beyond that reese, here's the thing. That's not what this OP was about. It was about glaring inconsistencies in how things run here on this board.

So thanks for your comment, but it doesn't address one of my main issues/concerns in recent HR form discussions, and neither does it really address the true problem I posted about.

Please spare all adults, and I presume all are adults here, the "John hit Kate and then Kate hit Mary" nonsense.

We all have had our moments; but by and large noodle, frankr, myself and many others have clearly demonstrated the ability to focus on a topic for discussion and use intelligent and reasonable point-counterpoints, only to have them hijacked, steered way off course, or have the discussion turn into childish impertinent nonsense and gross generalizations like coppers noted above--or worse, just have them inexplicably pulled down. And all the while the irrational baiting from others still stand!

Look for yourself. They are easy to read for yourself. Put yourself on the other side of things for a moment and look at those posts. Just evaluate the illogic and imbalance in copper's above statement. That one is a PRIME example. And there is no excuse for it here at an adult board--particularly in light of other things that have gone on and have been said here about this not being a "political board," etc.

Even political discussions can be reasonable and follow basic principles for open discussion/debate. Debate does NOT have to be about unbridled conflict. That is a misnomer. In fact, "discussions" are merely coffee chats w/o intelligent debate!
It is unreasonable to think that any true discussion of depth can occur in a free society of people apart from debate. It just requires following certain sensible rules for posting a topic for discussion, developing the idea, premise, thesis statement, whatever, and then staying on course while listening to the counterpoints and discussing them on the basis of intelligent facts and insight.



One more thing, no offense, but also your comment doesn't address the many mutations of the same thread that some seem to get away with--never having demonstrated any real thesis for reasonable discussion, much less a coherent line of reasonable discussion throughout the course of the thread. They aren't real tangents of the original general topic either. Mostly they are political spamming, period. And to me, that is a huge problem here.

Some don't want to have intelligent discourse and discussion. Some, in my view, don't understand what true diversity in discussion is about.

I differ with one of my closest friends on the current administration, my concerns regarding Constitutionality of this admin and the forces behind it that are pushing it along, as well as healthcare reform.
We each make our points and then go into counterpoints, and we try to stay relevant--or at least if we go to a tangent, we bring things intelligently back around again--and we keep the course of discussion rational.
If she stumps me or I stump her (I use stump for lack of a better word.) , we consider it, or we table the discussion until we've had time to further consider the various points brought to the table by both of us.

Now reese, that's adult. That's intelligent. And that is certainly what anyone should expect, bare minimum, from a professional "discussion" board that is not simply a "chat" board.

What's more, we don't SPAM each other with our own side's political agendas and then go off with lame responses and impertinent, grossly derogatory and unsubstantiated comments when someone brings some important and cogent perspectives to any relevant discussions on the topic at hand--simply b/c we may not be ready for those cogent perspectives--or b/c we are too darn lazy to consider them fully and then consider rationally other perspectives on it and reply intelligently, in kind.

If you can't hang on the field, well sit in the stands, go by a hot dog, but get off the field. If a reasonable adult professional can't discuss varying viewpoints with clear, cogent point/counterpoint responses, then lurk or move on to another thread. But don't post random and clearly disrespectful nonsense that is unquestionably childish and grossly unsubstantiated illogical partisanship--such as the many examples rendered most recently by Tex and copper.

I mean really. Calling Repubs and "red neck" Dems alien haters! What kind of childish, irrational nonsense is that, and again,

Why in the world is it allowed to stand????

Why the double standard? That's a fair question.

And again, that's just another example of what I am talking about.

[reesern1963]

You are incapable of allowing someone else to state a differing opinion without going into a lengthy diatribe stating why that person is wrong, speaking to that person as if he/she were a child. It gets tiresome. Not once can you just accept a differing opinion and say, "That's an interesting POV" and let it lie. You seem to feel the need to pound the other person down with your ideas. Your dogmatism doesn't make you right. It makes you look intolerant and closed-minded.

A strong argument doesn't have to be long-winded. In fact, the best arguments are the ones that can be brief, concise, and to the point. The longer you have to talk, IMO, the less capable you are of making your point.

And you do indeed give as good as you get, all denials to the contrary.

[reesern1963]

Stop talking about people. You are starting to sound like copper.

There is no need to compare people to animals.

Sticking to the topic is generally a safe bet.

I will talk about whatever I want. OK? You do not control me. You guys have already run several people off this board. I'll use whatever comparison I need to to make my point.

[peady2]

I will talk about whatever I want. OK? You do not control me. You guys have already run several people off this board. I'll use whatever comparison I need to to make my point.

Ah reese, you had to quote him and therefore I saw his remarks, since the posts of those posters on ignore show up when another quotes them! But I am glad I did this time. It gives me the opportunity to point out the hypocrisy of one who tells you to "stop talking about people" and then is caught "talking about" copperrose.

He then tells you that "sticking to the topic" is what you should do, but I guess that doesn't apply to him either, since his remarks here had nothing to do with the "topic" which was....well actually, who knows exactly WHAT point the OP was trying to make???

Oh, wait, I think the topic was copperrose. So I guess that he actually WAS "sticking to the topic" by "talking about" copperrose.

LOL!

[copperrose]

I've quit getting angry about postings because all of this bickering and anger reminds me of a favorite quote from one of my favorite people- "He who angers you controls you"--- Eleanor Roosevelt

[Edson!]

I will talk about whatever I want. OK? You do not control me. You guys have already run several people off this board. I'll use whatever comparison I need to to make my point.

LOL,

You know, I was starting to think that you might be capable of or on your way to making reasonable points for discussion development, but now I'm not so sure. I posted why in another recent thread like this, so I won't go into now.

But lolololol, then you demonstrate exactly my point with your own response. "Whaaaa! I'll just stamp my feet and do what I want, blah, blah, yell, boo hoo. You aren't the boss of me!" I mean really, it is embarassing.

Just have to laugh over that one, and sigh, and shake my head. Wow.

[Edson!]

copperrose responses exemplify the point quite well--as does reese's--and now yours.

I'm not going to be a part of your continued childish nonsense. I've made and will continue to make reasonable observations about double standards, illogical, and problematic behavior that occurs here. Here's why. It is incompatible with having a true discussion board.




Oh and reese, your response is quite unfair, and your opinion is based on your own weak bias along with p's and copp's. Again I say, if you're going to play ball, get on the field and play, and give it your best shot. If not go get a hot dog or a pretzel or sit in the stands.

Saying "Thus and such is an interesting point of view" on a real discussion board where there are to be true discussions is nice for coffee chatting, but it has nothing to do with substance and real discourse.

[reesern1963]

LOL,

You know, I was starting to think that you might be capable of or on your way to making reasonable points for discussion development, but now I'm not so sure. I posted why in another recent thread like this, so I won't go into now.

But lolololol, then you demonstrate exactly my point with your own response. "Whaaaa! I'll just stamp my feet and do what I want, blah, blah, yell, boo hoo. You aren't the boss of me!" I mean really, it is embarassing.

Just have to laugh over that one, and sigh, and shake my head. Wow.

Actually, I'm glad you shared that. I'd be insulted if you actually went so far as to compliment me. The last thing I want is your approval. That would mean I'd be getting it all wrong.

[Edson!]

Yes that is such a sound, emotionally balanced, and grown-up mentality to just keep tightly holding on to. Do you think that response is somehow smart, witty, profound, or true? Think again.

How many Conservative friends do you regularly interact with in your sphere of social growth or influence? I have many Liberal and Moderate, and interestingly, even some rather radical friends that I have, over many year unto this day, within my sphere of interaction and influence. I hold strong to core values and precepts, but I am willing to re-consider various perspectives IF someone can show me in balanced substance and reason why I should.

That kind of blows your imbalanced and clearly subjective claim against me out of the water. As a matter of fact, I just spent a good part of the weekend with friends that are quite Liberal and some Moderate as well as Conservative. We had a great time, and none of them share in your faulty position about me being ". . .incapable of allowing someone else to state a differing opinion. . . ." It's nonsense.

If you feel in the one down position, you need to look inside rather than blaming other people.