Bush talks about healthcare in Cleveland

[peady2]

For some reason the post above was cut off at the end. The quote is

"I'm a strong believer in medical liability reform. We've got a legal system which is driving up the costs of medicine, because docs are practicing defensive medicine and driving good doctors out of practice. And it makes no sense to have a legal system that punishes good medicine. And therefore, I strongly believe that the Congress ought to pass federal medical liability insurance for our doctors and our providers."

[faithforever]

Thanks to all especially Dusty for the clarification. While again the ER comment was taken out of context, I don't think he was being sarcastic.

OK- we agree health care is a right- A BASIC HUMAN RIGHT. People pay for food, it is a commodity, does that mean people should starve who cannot pay for it?

Micheal Moore is right on one issue- healthcare and for-profit are antithetical.

[CrankyChrissy]

Exactly (or even approximately) what level of health care is a basic human right? If my self-esteem is in the toilet because of my beak nose and elephant ears, do I have a basic right to cosmetic surgery?

The prospect of government guaranteeing a basic human right to health care is hardly reassuring in these troubling times. Government is no more immune to the profit motive than anyone else. Even now, if more of our tax dollars went to actually providing basic health care (to legitimate American citizens) and less went to feeding bloated government agencies, we'd be doing a better job of caring for the poor and indigent. Mr. Bush may not be achieving much in the way of improving health care, but his administration is not the first to perform inadequately in that department. Nor did the Bush administration create the problem of the US healthcare system.

Less government, lower taxes and a modicum of faith in the charitable impulses of most. . . ummmmm.. .many individuals, churches, and other charitable foundations is a better solution than universal, socialistic government-provided health care.

[insenescence1]

There is a difference between getting liability insurance for free (which you originally suggested), vs. getting it at a fixed rate (presumably cheaper) from the gov't (which you later suggested).

The difference is that if the gov't is the insurer, they can also limit awards and reduce subsequent cost of health care delivery. This will not require taxpayer subsidy.

And if taxpayer subsidy is your platform, then you need to rethink your position, because we are ALREADY paying to 'subsidize' liability insurance anyway, even though medmal insurance is private, because those providers are passing on the cost to the consumer.

In spite of what you want to present as the president's words, he never said that physicians should be given free gov't liability insurance, or that it should be subsidized by the taxpayer.

Any way you look at it, it's a very liberal concept, and it strikes me funny that liberals criticize any such reform simply because it came out of Bush's mouth. Makes no sense; liberals want to federalize health care reimbursements, but keep medical malpractice insurance in the hands of private insurance companies. Leave it to liberals to champion conflicting ideas that simply can't coexist in the same reality. You can't win!

[faithforever]

Chrissy, don't be ridiculous in refrencing things like cosmetic surgery. Bottom line is every legal resident in this country should have a right to purchase AFFORDABLE basic medical insurance that will enable them to see a doctor, have surgery for a bona fide illness and pay for basic prescription drugs.

If you are such a fan of small governemnt why are you a GWB supporter? You have to admit he spends like crazy and our great grandchildren will inheirit the deficit he has created.

Faith baised clinics are not the answer any more than food pantries are the answer to food stamp reductions. My islamic center has a clinic (WE SEE ALL UNINSURED REGARDLESS OF FAITH) and what can we do when we see someone who needs a mastectomy or open heart surgery except wring our hands?

I'm not saying socialized medicine is the answer- much to the disapointment of the neo-cons. But you must have car insurance to drive a car- why not health insurance?

[leigh]

I am sorry for what happened to your family Peady, and I am sure it was a legitimate medical error, but there is a wild west mentality out there about medical malpractice. Again, I site the breck girl as an example. In a courtroom, Edwards ( breck girl ) once pretended to be a fetus suffering from a complicated labor. He cried out in a baby voice to" please do a c section to save me ! " The jury bought it and the millions went into breck girl's pocket. And we wonder why we have such a high c section rate in this country ! This case was settled before the studies came out linking cerebral palsy to prenatal development, not labor.

I can't believe anyone would disagree that capping malpractice awards is positive for our healthcare cost woes.

This is a great place to start, but the liberals hate the president so much they would rather side with greedy pond scum lawyers than Pres Bush.

[peady2]

Thank you dusty. It was a very traumatic time in my life and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. I did learn a lot about medmal however. I think the biggest-and most disturbing-lesson was that if the victim didn't have earnings power they were basically considered expendable in the eyes of the law. Yes, there can be jury awards for pain and suffering but it is already unusual to get large awards for pain/suffering. But to think that the life of a child or an older person without a job isn't worth as much as a young man who is at his peak earnings is very upsetting and sobering to me.

I really am not siding with the lawyers. If the case is legitimate they get paid with their percentage fee. If it isn't, they won't. It's as simple as that.

Faith-how was the ER comment taken out of context? it seemed pretty straightforward to me. And so far no "clarification" has come from the White House.

[caregiver]

I've been reading all this discussion about socialized healthcare (single payer system) and healthcare system that USA has at present. When I read accolates expressed for Europian style of health care, I get the impression that people don't really know what they talking about. Most of their arguments come from Moore's so called documentary. Myself I was born and raised in the country with socialized healthcare (former Soviet Union), therefore I can speak about it from personal experience. This experience include my working as a nurse and, luckily, very small experience as a patient.
Of course, health care was free but it was stagnant because without incentives of the market nobody was interested in the developing new drugs, procedures or equipment. If you would like to know how system works there is short description of it. Person didn't have the chance to choose his physician even from the short list like HMO provides. Physician was assigned by the city government based on geographical (city blocks) principle. If you were lucky, you had good physician, if not you stuck with bad one without any chance to change him. All services stopped in the afternoon in the clinics and in the hospitals. If patient was admitted to the hospital Friday afternoon, he was lingering without treatment until Monday. Of course, there was waiting list to get bed and people didn't wait for bed in ER but were sent home. Because of such rationing of health care, elderly weren't even taken to the hospital no matter what the emergency, and by elderly I mean people of 70 years of age. I can go on and on but for sake of brevity I limit examples of the single payer (socialized )health care by ones that were described.
Actually, one doesn't need to go to another country to see goverment-run healthcare in action, just take closer look into VA system and what mess it is in.

[leigh]

Ah ha ! Someone else has experienced government healthcare. I think tricare ( the government medical program for military and family ) is much better than the Soviet medical system, but I do see similarities. The clinics do shut down, and there is no doctor to call if you have a question after hours ....no, go sit your ass down in the ER and wait. I posted before that there are no pediatricians on call after hours. That goes for obstetricians as well. I tried all afternoon to call a doctor, any doctor from the Tripler OB clinic and could not get one MD on the phone. I was having some runs of tachycardia and I was scared.

How many of you parents and past or presently pregnant moms think that it is an improvement in healthcare to have no answering service for your childrens' pediatricians ? How about OB ? Would you be comfortable with that ?

[bryan]

I am going to agree with you Faith, so far, my anecdotal personal observations have been the SE is much more business focused (lots of rules) and the NE medical care is more accessable and patient oriented.

[Confed]

A Jesuit taught my ethics class in undergrad. He stated a right coincided with an obligation. In other words, if someone espouses a right, someone else is obliged to see that right fulfilled; or at least not prevent someone from realizing that right.

This begs the question, who is obligated to provide healthcare? In the legal arena, the only people with a right to healthcare are in jail.

[bryan]

Well, not really speaking about 'socialized NE - just cultural environment and probably the exact opposite. Talking doctors now and not hospitals.

For example, there are still many, many doc offices in the periphery of every neighborhood on LI. Many have practices in their homes or rent homes or small offices in strip malls for offices. I can call a doc on LI and actually speak to him! In the NE they will squeeze you in. I know one doc who has regular Sunday office hours and he works LATE. Have had him do rounds in ICU at midnight *after* he finished up in the office. Another employs his daughter who brings her 2year old and sits on the docs lap while he talks with you AFTER the exam (and this is IF IF IF you agree - he asks first). It's nice.


Seems like it's all huge medical buildings and conglomerates here in SE. The recordings tell you to'go to emergency room if you are ill and it is not office hours. If you call all you get is recorded messages with call back by staff,(press 1 for appt., press 2 for medical ques., press 3 for billing) you never get to speak to the doc personally. Don't bother to call during 'lunch hour' or 1/2 hours on Friday - you are out of luck.

While it is convenient to visit one central location (the size of Utah) for all your consults - something is lost. I like the small business atmosphere better up there.

[insenescence1]

Oddly, our senior citizens are not flocking to the northeast and midwest for this speculable health care.

The regional thing is largely anecdotal...definitely not factual.

The largest employer in Western PA...University of Pittsburgh Medical Center. Allegedly not-for-profit, but pulled in $177 million last year, and operates several for-profit subsidiaries.

When the largest employer in Western PA is a health system, I hardly think it qualifies as "small business atmosphere."

I just moved to the southeast late last year, and had to choose a new GP with my HMO. When I went to the HMO website, I narrowed my search down to internal medicine specialists who had an office within five miles of my apartment, and were still accepting patients. My search brought me 70 physicians...that's just within five miles of my apt! I picked a Harvard grad with 15 years experience that had admitting privileges at both of the local teaching facilities.

Anecdotal, yes. But this kind of choice and availability is something that cannot be improved upon by socialistic gov't interference.

[insenescence1]

PS...the Cleveland Clinic, where Pres. Bush was speaking, is located in the midwest, and they operate four facilities in Florida...the Southeast.

[PWhite]

Well of course, I, for one, am completely confident in the veracity of anything our President,GWB, has to say about Health Care.

In addition, I totally agree that he has chosen the right path to follow in the Middle East.